Discussion on TESLJB-LBelow is a discussion about Uriel Wittenberg's Inside China's Diplomacy School which took place on TESLJB-L, an electronic discussion forum on topics of concern to TESL (Teachers of English as a Second Language). All messages pertaining to Uriel's story are fully reproduced here (though email addresses have been altered as an antispam measure). To obtain information about TESLJB-L, send an email message to LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU containing just the command: SUBSCRIBE TESL-L
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:56:38 -0400 I taught at China's Foreign Affairs College -- an elite state university in Beijing established a half-century ago to train China's diplomats. My teaching was praised by many, but after two months a sudden upheaval took place. I was said to disrespect the students; to disrespect China; and to have committed improprieties with female students. The fiery denunciations swept through the student body. The affected classes were practically unanimous in their condemnation. Virtually all students signed a complaint letter to school authorities -- including students who'd emailed praise days earlier. I was reprimanded by the school authorities, who were however unwilling to discuss any specific allegation or let me see the complaint letter, saying the students must be protected from me. Then a death threat arrived in the post: "You can't imagine how we hate you. Please be warned that if you don't stop attacking on China and harassing the girls, you will be taught a good lesson. It is not a big talk that it is easier to disable you or kill you than to kill a dog." I handed the threat over to the school authorities and demanded a police investigation. Their initial response was that the threat was none of their business. The school's top official, Heng Xiaojun, was also unperturbed, pointing out that the threat was conditional -- I would be safe as long as I desisted from my objectionable behavior. No police investigation occured. My classes were called "Topical English," and I designated a new topic: the student complaints. Discussion raged, accusations flew. The students were furious over being confronted about their own complaints. Then the school authorities told me that there had been an additional source of complaints and that they were obliged to terminate my contract. Not all of my classes were swept up in the hysteria. Other classes were unaffected and went on normally. A student from one of these classes wrote: "you really do a good job,[our] class will support you forever,but now we will lose a good teacher.when we talked about it today,we felt so sad.most of them said that they learned a lot in your class,and found it very interesting.you are fire is the loss of the school.you are our hero!" My contract had been issued by the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs, an office of the national government. It guaranteed that the parties could request arbitration from that office in case of dispute. I requested arbitration, pointing out that "the complaints were based on false rumors and gossip" and that the university neglected its "very basic duty" to "INVESTIGATE complaints" before terminating me. The State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs ignored my submission and refused to respond to repeated messages. Full details of this true story at http://urielw.com/china2/ . Comments welcome! Uriel Wittenberg; CANADA; http://urielw.com
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:23:15 -0400 Congratulations, Uriel, you must have succeeded as a teacher of Socratic dimensions! Sadly, Plato's academy is nowhere to be found in China. Dismissal from only one Chinese university however, Uriel, does not qualify for a leadership role in the club of expulsion. You must be tossed from at least four different universities (for discussing either Stalin, (whose books are available in every book store in China,) or Rosa Luxemburg/Antonio Gramsci, whose books are forbidden in China) if you wish to acquire a seat at the round table of expulsed expatriots. Foreigners not infrequently refer to China as a "communist" society, but the last thing that authorities there can tolerate is open, honest, scholarly criticism, such as one might have encountered during the Paris Commune of 1870, (the example ridiculed by Marx, precisely (one of Marx's favorite descriptors) because of the openness of the discussions about the direction for succeeding steps in that revolution.) China's college age women dislike being considered "sex objects", in other words, they are naive about physical intimacy. You would have failed in any event, once you committed yourself to acting like a normal adult male of European culture and temperament. In their eyes, communism is associated with hard work, abstinence from sexuality, absence of sensuality, and mindless repetition of slogans as if repetition per se offers validity. In other words, the intelligentsia there understand and admire fascism, but they call it by a different name. Even the Hitler youth movement had a more progressive attitude on sexuality among teenagers, than the Chinese government. China itself, its ancient culture and civilization, its wonderful people, its fascinating languages, its wealth of poetry, are all demeaned by a government which is vehemently hostile to historical accuracy, and which will certainly go to ANY length, to preserve its peculiar ideological indoctrination of university students. Challenging the political powers on the validity of their assumptions guarantees dismissal. Regards, and welcome to the club of expulsed instructors. p.s. For those naive listers who imagine a stint in the old country might be a lot of fun, it can be! Stick to the textbook like glue, say nothing about the real world, and sleep only in your own bedroom. tom tobias tom.tefl.zzn.com
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:24:36 -0000 I've never been to China, but I can see how calling Korean students late at night might seem inappropriate and in fact, I've never called one of my college students at home. I would imagine that going out for dinner with only one female students is against the rules. I know it is at my university in Korea. Going out with an entire class is fine. Quotes from http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#7 Improper invitations? What was that? My contacts with female students. There had been complaints about my phone calls to the female dormitories. Male faculty members, she told me, shouldn't phone the female dormitories later than 10 PM. That was nonsense. I'd never heard of any restrictions on communications with female students at any point in my time in China. And my impression was that FAC students, like those at Tsinghua, rarely returned to their dorms earlier than 11 PM.
She said something about going to bars with female students. Yes, I'd gone for a drink with a student on a very moderate number of occasions. Was this suddenly against the rules?
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:45:36 -0700 Hi Listmembers, Regarding Uriel's post, not everybody is suitable for China. The Chinese always do things for a reason, although sometimes it's a silly reason (by Western standards). One thing I do know, if you look for trouble here, you will find it. I have colleagues working at the Foreign Service School in Beijing--no problems..so far. I am just finishing a two-year rotation at the Graduate School--Xiamen University. It was a good experience for me, I have enjoyed my time working with the Chinese here. I have been treated reasonably well...this in spite of the fact that I criticized (in print) their handling of the SARS crisis, I am pro-Bush, anti-UN, and anti-communist (all of which places me in opposition to the CCP here), and my Taiwanese wife is sympathetic to the DPP in Taiwan. After 25 years in and out of Asia, I have finally learned there are third rails you can't go near...don't join the Falun Gong, don't advocate Taiwan independence, don't sleep with female students...among others... The political culture over here is stifling and infantile, but it is changing for the better, and the Chinese themselves are basically decent, hardworking people. Come to China and work for a year--you'll learn a lot--but don't come with unrealistic expectations. Steve Schackne
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:10:53 -0400 Thanks to list members for interesting responses to my post about China's (arguably undiplomatic) diplomacy school. To briefly reply: Tom Tobias writes: "Challenging the political powers on the validity of their assumptions guarantees dismissal." I'd stress that in my three years of teaching, at four Chinese universities, I was never inclined to challenge or criticize the Chinese system or its government, or to stray into the few obvious sensitive topics (Taiwan, Falun Gong, Communist Party authority versus democracy). I always felt it not very interesting to criticize communism when even the Communists don't really believe in it. More interesting and worthwhile, I thought, to open my students' eyes to the defects of the U.S. system. The following reflects my view: "Under capitalism and democracy, the bedrock institutions of the modern world, the masses' convictions, inclinations and whims are the currency of power. So it's no surprise that the atmosphere is suffused with deceit." (http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#61 ) Tom also advises listers thinking of teaching in China to "stick to the textbook like glue" and "say nothing about the real world." Most of my teaching was based on articles on major stories that I selected from The New York Times. The admins seemed quite impressed and never objected, and the good students were happy. (Lazy students seemed to expect foreigner-taught university English classes to consist of childish games or vacuous discussions about holidays and "festivals" in the West.) James Trotta writes: "I would imagine that going out for dinner with only one female student is against the rules." I find this to be a terribly bleak and circumscribed view of what is proper, but I imagine this forum wouldn't want to see a debate on this point. Anyway, there is no such rule, and at all four universities I went out one-on-one with many students. Steve Schackne, referring to my post, observes that "not everybody is suitable for China" and seems to impute "unrealistic expectations" to me, without elaboration. A teacher in China himself, he says he's pro-Bush and anti-communist. I was anti-Bush and indifferent on communism, so it's not obvious what my "unrealistic expectations" were.
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:06:44 -0700 Uriel, I have seen you post about this same situation at various times and on different lists. My question, then, is what your *purpose* is in posting about it again. What are you hoping that the list will provide for you?
Karen
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:14:30 -0400 Hi Karen, I'm a frustrated writer. I'm persuaded the story is interesting and relevant (a not totally unique view), yet publishers show no interest. As is known, publisher disdain does not absolutely condemn a work. I posted on the assumption that most forum members would never have heard of the story and that at least a few would find it worthwhile. For example, I may be the only "foreign expert" in China ever to have invoked the standard foreign expert contract clause offering arbitration on request. My story reports the outcome in detail. To my mind, it's also noteworthy that a teacher at China's DIPLOMACY school would receive a death threat from students, and that the sole reassurance offered by university administrators would be to advise him he'd be safe as long as he followed the threat writer's demands. Further, there's no published work I know of that presents such a detailed and close-up view of today's university students in China. So, I don't have any sinister "purpose." Simply telling a story -- one that seems as suited as could be to a forum on teachers' job issues -- and inviting comment. I'm making no money here. Folks are invited to download, for free, the full, detailed story from my personal (no ads anywhere) website: http://urielw.com/china2/ . Uriel Wittenberg, Toronto
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:38:36 -0400
I have read Mr. Wittenburg's complaints. I have also read his response to Karen's question: itself enough to wonder at the writer's angle on the rights and duties of a teacher.It would seem to me that the only fair response would be to ask the other side, i.e. the Chinese authorities at that specific institution, for their version of the facts. (China's experience of Mr. Wittenberg?) Otherwise, the whole exercise seems to me one-sided and self-serving i.e. as worthy of the list's attention as an argument on the presence of WMD in Iraq.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:16:41 EDT I, for one, would like to see this thread end. I am sorry Mr. Wittenberg was badly treated in China, but these things happen sometimes to foreign workers. I would prefer to read more practical information on this listserv. By way of a suggestion, Dave's ESL Cafe may be a better forum for this story.
M. Anthony
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:42:02 -0000 Uriel writes of my comment that going out with students is probably against the rules: "I find this to be a terribly bleak and circumscribed view of what is proper, but I imagine this forum wouldn't want to see a debate on this point. Anyway, there is no such rule, and at all four universities I went out one-on-one with many students." I can say is that my university in Korea has a rule about not going out with students; a professor was recently let go for such an infraction. In an American university, specifically Hofstra University, these rules exist and are enforced. As an undergrad a friend of mine started seeing a part time professor (who wasn't teaching any of my friend's classes). Rumors started and the professor was let go. Uriel then writes: "...it's not obvious what my "unrealistic expectations" were." I maintain that dating your students in American universities, Korean universities, and apparently Chinese universities and expecting institutions to look the other way is highly unrealistic. One last quote, this one from the complete online story: "The mantra was being intoned again: why why why, a girl wanted to know, did I invite girls and not boys? "What gave a silly young girl like her the right to question me about my personal choices? I asked her. 'You're forgetting the respect due your teachers.'" It seems to me that we must remember the respect due our students before we can expect to be respected as professional educators.
--
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:34:33 -0700 The TESLJB-L board is, to my knowledge, a job forum where subscribers can turn for information on all aspects of the ESL job industry, including salary, experiences etc. I, for one, do not wish to see a sanitized version of this industry which would require a form of censorship anathema to open discussion and debate. Mr. Wittenberg's China narrative is certainly of interest to those subscribers who might wish to explore the meanings that can be assigned to the ESL industry in terms of East/West dichotomies, culture, cultural hegemony, gender, race and class. More particularly, when a white Western male walks into an Asian classroom and begins to teach English to male and female students, there are issues of power, culture and language that are all too often left unexamined. Teaching English is not an innocent proposition, devoid of these social and political imperatives. I see this all the time here in Korea. I have also seen, time and time again, the manner in which discussion of these issues gets stifled and censored by those who would prefer to see the teaching of English as something that takes place in a pristine vacuum. The overt sexism and racism that is evident on Dave's ESL cafe, is testimony to a rawness that calls out for scrutiny and discussion of the whole industry. Surely, Mr. Wittenberg's narrative is one example in which several of those sleeping dogs leap up and bite. For this reason I do not wish to see censorship of what could be a valuable and meaningful discussion for all of us in jobs or applying for jobs in countries other than the US. Sheelagh Conway Homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto. Cicero
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 05:28:40 -0700 At my community college here in North Carolina (USA), the stated college policy is that a teacher cannot date anyone who is in one of his/her classes. You can also not teach a member of your family in one of your classes. You *also* cannot date or be married to someone that you, directly or indirectly, have any kind of supervisory connection to. This policy was not in place when I first started teaching there 20 years ago, probably because the administration assumed teachers would know better. However, problems with this very type of situation caused the college to implement one. Local universities have also instituted similar policies. One of the big local universities has a policy against teachers dating *any* student enrolled at the university. Our college had initially wanted to have the same type of blanket policy against dating anyone who was a student at the college, but almost everyone protested because, at our community college, with 7 campuses across the metropolitan area, almost everyone in the city takes a class (whether continuing education or curriculum) at some point - courses from 'travel Spanish' to 'how to build your own webpage'. The administration saw that, with the mission of a community college being what it is, the blanket policy really wouldn't work, so they made it just students in your classes. Quite frankly, it makes good sense to me.
Karen Stanley
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:44:58 -0400 Geoffrey Vitale gives vent to the sadly widespread prejudice against involved parties -- that it's impossible for them to be unprejudiced. Unfortunately, there are times when a story won't emerge any other way. I attempt to allay readers' suspicions of bias in my story by reproducing, in their entirety, ALL relevant documents from the other side. If I may quote from my submission to the government arbitrator (http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#83 ): "If FAC [the Foreign Affairs College] had a justification for terminating my employment, it should have explained its justification to me in writing. This is elementary. FAC has never done so." I also present the full text of a news article written by a South China Morning Post reporter who researched this story (http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#91 ), interviewing the school admin and students, though for some mysterious reason the story was spiked by a senior editor. But if suspicions linger, and if anyone would care to undertake a neutral investigation, I'd cooperate and provide all contact info for the other side. I don't know what more I can do to show good faith. Readers will readily discover that my story makes little effort to avoid being provocative, and James Trotta quotes an example. But he omits context, which shows the student's challenge to have been impertinent and based on false premises. The point of the passage, of course, is to accurately depict how the students fell prey and submitted to a campaign of false rumor and hysteria. I don't know whether Mr. Trotta misinterprets my statement that I "went out" one-on-one with many students at all four universities where I taught. (It was in response to his statement, "I would imagine that going out for dinner with only one female student is against the rules.") Of course I don't mean I was romantically involved with many students. Does Hofstra really not trust its teachers to meet with students other than in public?! It has often struck me, on returning from China, how the environment in the West is 100 times safer -- yet people are 100 times more fearful. In striving to eliminate all of life's potential dangers, it seems to me we may not be left with much worth living for. But I can't believe that Hofstra, or any other reputable university, really has such extreme restrictions on the personal lives of community members. If I'm wrong, I'd be very interested to be directed to a webpage showing the relevant rules.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:12:28 -0400 "Geoffrey Vitale gives vent to the sadly widespread prejudice against involved parties -- that it's impossible for them to be unprejudiced." (U.W.)
I am not in the habit of 'giving vent', merely of checking sources. After reading Mr. Wittenberg's and other people's comments, I went to the trouble of checking back with colleagues in China - I too know the country reasonably well as an invited (Canadian) professor-who confirmed that there is a general ruling in Chinese academic institutions that teachers do NOT date students. Mr. Wittenberg seems either unaware of this, or feels that his cultural behaviour should prevail over that of his host country. As to the idea that the complainant (in this case Mr. W.) should be believed without there being any need to consult the aggrieved party for a counter opinion.... well.... what can I say??? Only that I hope this silly conversation can end now.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:53:42 -0400 Rejoins Geoffrey Vitale: "I am not in the habit of 'giving vent', merely of checking sources.... I went to the trouble of checking back with colleagues in China ... who confirmed that there is a general ruling in Chinese academic institutions that teachers do NOT date students. Mr. Wittenberg seems either unaware of this, or ...." But there was no need to go to other sources. My own story reports on the FAC orientation meeting held August 30, 2002 for newly arrived Western faculty: "Assistant President Heng Xiaojun [advised]: we should not preach religion; we should avoid classroom disputes with students on political topics like Taiwan; and we should not become overly intimate with students. On that last point, he told us with a pained expression that there had been some unpleasantness in the past, when relationships had broken up -- some participants had gotten angry." (http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#45 ) Dr. Vitale goes on: "As to the idea that the complainant (in this case Mr. W.) should be believed without there being any need to consult the aggrieved party for a counter opinion.... well.... what can I say???" Ironically, I myself articulated Dr. Vitale's sentiment in the classroom, after a girl who'd called me "IMMORAL!" in open class refused to explain herself: "Let me give you some advice. And if you follow this you'll be smarter than most people and smarter than your administration at FAC. When you hear somebody make allegations about somebody else, get the other side of the story before making a judgment." (http://urielw.com/china2/uwchina2.htm#31 ) For the record, I agree with Karen Stanley that it's reasonable to have a policy disallowing "dating" between a teacher and anyone who is in one of his/her classes.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:30:28 -1000 I'm not even going to dignify your sad rationalism of your act--demanding that people explain why you're an immoral, senseless, and arrogant idiot--by giving you an explanation. You obviously don't want to know why you're wrong, so no matter of "discussing" it will help you see the problem. What I want to say is this: It's people like YOU who are the cause for anti-Americanism. I hope you go to sleep every night knowing that YOU contributed to another innocent American soldier's death! YOU may not have felt that way, but when you were in China taking advantage of your students, they and others saw YOU as THE American who brings his liberal, immoral values to them and tries to implant those ideas in their own society. Although I'm a strong believer that anyone who kills innocent civilians or belongs to a secret (and harmful!) society is evil no matter what their rational is (a.k.a. terrorists), I can see why many Middle Easterners unrelated to these terrorist groups are still against Americans. They feel that you bring immoral values to them, and when English teachers like these go around dating their girls, it's surely a lot more effective way of proving their point than even watching a Hollywood production. I just hope that those Chinese won't come after the U.S. because some stupid English teachers were dating students at "every single school" they taught at. In case you're wondering what gives me the right to say these things, I'm Asian and I've had enough of these guys who can't get girls in their own home country but come to Asia and suddenly find out that it's very easy to date beautiful girls... and then proudly boast about it on online discussion boards. For your information, many of these girls can't even tell whether you're ugly or good-looking. You're just the one who speaks better English (which many of these girls are eager to learn and thus they will look up to you for that) and takes advantage of that fact. In my eyes it's no different than being a pedophile as you are the adult who should act like any responsible grown-up with common sense would, yet you snatched up those chances as quickly as you could to enjoy the company of those poor girls who didn't know any better. Not that their behavior should be excused but you are obviously the one with the ability to exercise more common sense--at least in Asia that's what we expect of our teachers, and thus we respect and trust them more than we would others. Sweet dreams, really.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:41:07 -1000 I just want to apologize in advance to all the others for my use of vulgar expressions. The bad bring out the worst in me, but I felt that someone had to speak her mind instead of dancing around fancy, politically correct words and take the blame. While being open-minded is something everyone should learn, being too liberal can sometimes shroud people's judgement and even make them lose common sense. Yes, an open discussion that grabs everyone's attention is good, but you don't have to bring in controversial topics to do that. That's no different from those in the entertainment industry who continue to thrive for more violence and extreme measures (including more sex and gross experiments) in order to get more people to watch their shows. 'nuff said. Again, apologies to anyone who might have been offended by my post--except you, Wittenberg! You should snap back to your senses--and have a wonderful weekend everyone.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:03:01 -0400 The obvious outrage at Mr. Wittenberg's postings comes as a surprise to me. The purpose of this listserv (in my belief) is to provide necessary and helpful information on teaching abroad. To those who still think the info should not be posted on this listserv, look at the description / rules posted on the listserv's website: "TESLJB-L Jobs, employment issues, professional development and working conditions in TESL/TEFL " I, for my part, find the postings enlightening and interesting. Mr. Wittenberg's descriptions might not be in line with the experience of other people, but I surely appreciate such a detailed report. This does not mean, however, that I am unable to read between the lines. Alex Wrege - The University of Toledo.
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:32:46 -0700 I worry that the thread which originated with Mr. Wittenberg's post is eliciting, among other posts, some emotional reactions on both sides which don't contribute to increasing awareness or better knowledge, and which tend to provoke further posts of the same type. Mr. Wittenberg's journal is available on his website. People have agreed and disagreed with his views. Mostly, discussion has now focused on whether or not posts of this type are appropriate for the list. I think this pretty much brings to a close the usefulness of the thread. In light of this, I would like to ask those listmembers still interested to continue the discussion off-list. Thanks. Karen Stanley Manager, TESLJB-L
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